Wisdom and Shiny, New Shoes -- Monsieur Renaissance : le forum de discussion

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SMiller Private First Class Gender: Female Location: Registered: Jun 2007 Status: Offline Posts: 15	Posted Monday, June 30, 2008 @ 08:03 PM “In many ways, talking to God is like a comfortable old pair of shoes. Those shoes are not shiny, they’re not new, they’re not likely to turn too many heads in themselves. But they are heaven on our feet, just as God is heaven to our souls. And while the old shoes will not turn too many heads, the comfort with which we walk in them will. There will be something about how relaxed we feel in our skins when we have them on that will catch the attention of others, at least if their attention is to be caught. If their attention is not to be caught, shiny new shoes will probably not catch it either, or if does, we will not have caught their attention, only our shoes, and that is really far from flattering when one pauses to consider. And the minute we catch the attention of others, most of us, insecure perhaps, run to the store to buy new shoes. Why? Because we have forgotten that wisdom comes from living life. While there is nothing wrong with new shoes in themselves, nevertheless wisdom is not a shiny new pair of shoes” I was very intrigued by this metaphor. Actually this entire letter on wisdom was refreshing. It’s a great wake up call. If I’m not comfortable with who I am, I won’t be anything out of the ordinary. That’s where the problem lies. I haven’t found contentment in the skin I’m in. Thanks so much for this.
Admin General Gender: Male Location: USA Registered: Jan 2006 Status: Offline Posts: 810	Posted Tuesday, July 1, 2008 @ 11:13 PM You are very welcome, and it is good to hear from you again. $Cool #\)$ There is an article on a Yoga website we kicked around a bit on the Last Days thread that also might interest you, as in its own way it is tied to some of the themes in this latest issue. The parts about the god and goddess can be profitably read as metaphors; much of it is just good advice, and in its own way refreshing. You know me and digging stuff up from all over—laughs. Anyway, it is basically on relationships, but as Teresa pointed out on the thread mentioned above, God is our ultimate Tantric partner: see How to Start a Tantric Relationship if interested. But yes, it is good sometimes to move away from the church world for a little bit, at least long enough to be alone with God, because sometimes the very things that are meant to focus our thoughts actually interfere with the simplicity of being. More and more in my own life, God is far more like a friend or an older and wiser brother to me than a savior: not that it’s mutually exclusive, but really, I think of myself as a kid in many ways, carefree, sometimes a little naughty, but not burdened with terrible guilt at my inevitable shortcomings. In fact, sometimes I think God smiles at my slightly rebellious ways. And that really is because, to me at least, talking to God truly is like wearing a comfortable, old pair of shoes. I don’t say there isn’t profit in the Christianity practiced by many in America today, but I do think it often so over-complicates the intimacy of the everyday. Life with God is right here, right now, and the key to self-acceptance and the worthiest things in life is found in the pursuit of the relationship that informs all others. I recently went through a time of disappointment and sorrow: it was bittersweet really. A sad pleasure commingled with the pain, the pleasure of having nothing to regret in spite of disappointment and things that are really no one’s fault (for really, joy can exist even in the midst of sorrow, particularly if we rediscover what I’m about to say next). It really caused me to re-remember just how much joy and depth we can find in the good graces of God, again, not as the church world tends to over-complicate with their particular interpretations of theology, but in the simple, day-in, day-out communion with out greatest friend, our oldest and wisest brother, and also, of course, our Lord. There really is joy to be found in existence, even joy to be found in sorrow if we lead our lives well, honestly, kindly, to the best of our beautifully imperfect ability.
bonnie Master Sergeant Gender: Female Location: Pacific Northwest USA Registered: Oct 2007 Status: Offline Posts: 129	Posted Tuesday, July 1, 2008 @ 11:29 PM “Sin boldly! But believe more bolder still.”~Martin Luther Portraiture of Martin Luther by Lucas Cranach the Elder (1472- 1553)
Admin General Gender: Male Location: USA Registered: Jan 2006 Status: Offline Posts: 810	Posted Tuesday, July 1, 2008 @ 11:34 PM Amen to that! Laughs. I would far rather sin with God at my side, than with him at my back, or my back turned to him. When I do sin, and I take him with me, he transforms that sin into insight and growth. For sin, most generally, is a lack of virtue, and most worthy things have to be tasted before they can be known.
sara Major Gender: Unspecified Location: Registered: Feb 2006 Status: Offline Posts: 1253	Posted Wednesday, July 2, 2008 @ 07:31 AM My goodness. From that portrait, it doesn’t look like our ole pal Martin Luther derived much joy from his faith. If only some good German hausfrau had stuck a flower in his hat, the history of the Reformation might have been entirely different. I wonder, dear Admin….is sin a lack of virtue or the flip side of virtue? I tend to view it as the latter. In terms of my own personality, my finest qualities, when I’m not attentive, can often degenerate into my worst flaws. My patience turns to indifference, my humor into sarcasm, my confidence into haughtiness. The only way to “control” these tendencies is to, as you say, keep Christ by my side. When I abandon Him and wander off on my own, I am always in danger of acting like a big jerk. Fortunately, He follows me from a distance, and, when I get into trouble, I race back to His side. I agree with you totally that our “sins” are opportunities for insight and growth. To be quite honest, I trust my “demons” much more than I trust my virtues because I know they are real. Sometimes my virtues are simply good manners or clever deceptions (so clever I deceive myself) . But those sins! They are upfront and obvious. Suddenly, there I am, puzzled and confused, embedded in some stupid mess I created from my own behavior and I have to figure out how I got there. Again, I’m not big into self-flagellation, although, as my forum-friends know, I am prone to feeling guilt. However, sometimes, I don’t even trust those feelings because I think THAT emotion can be fraudulent as well. “See how guilty I feel? That shows how good I am, right?” It’s also an effective strategy for getting out of trouble and making the person you sinned against feel ashamed for being upset with you. “How can you be angry with me when I AM SO OBVIOUSLY REPENTANT!!” Sigh. You peel off one layer of hypocrisy and pretense and delusion and there’s another one right under it. Anyway, that’s why I like my demons. I don’t want to get rid of them because I’d be diminished by their absence. Was it Goethe who said that our weaknesses are the source of our individuality? However, I do want to discipline them….or maybe integrate them? One layer at a time….. BTW, Monsieur soon-to-be Philosophy Professor…I just learned the COOLEST word! Enantiodromia, Jung borrowed it from Heraclitus, to “describe the process whereby inherited tendencies suddenly yield to their opposites. An excess of evil brings on good. An excess of good brings on evil. Extreme secularism provokes faith. An excess of religious fervour precipitates scepticism.” In other words, why Obama might get elected! Bill Clinton’s moral turpitude led to George Bush’s unquestioning religious convictions which will lead to…….Obama’s moral righteousness and questionable convictions!
bonnie Master Sergeant Gender: Female Location: Pacific Northwest USA Registered: Oct 2007 Status: Offline Posts: 129	Posted Wednesday, July 2, 2008 @ 09:24 AM Is nothing sacred with you, Sara? Cranach, the crown prince of Lutheran Reformation artists, specialized in another genre of painting besides stuffy portraitures, by the way.
Admin General Gender: Male Location: USA Registered: Jan 2006 Status: Offline Posts: 810	Posted Wednesday, July 2, 2008 @ 11:09 AM I will be teaching critical thinking, as you know, and you know how I am about my logic. is sin [either] a lack of virtue or the flip side of virtue? Tsk, tsk. Relocating definitions by the classic either/or when you can be far more subtle, diabolical even if you like, if you redefine by paying homage to the both while subtlety championing the and. And of course you do that, not because the and is necessarily superior, but because pragmatically speaking—always pragmatic—at the immediate moment in the present conversation the and seems to be the excess of evil that brings on the good, the extreme secularism that provokes faith, the other that informs the one. So, exploit the rhetoric: celebrate the both/and—argue heaven by celebrating both it and hell—while implicitly turning the and to an or, for it will have its necessary balance merely by virtue that a both/and forces consideration of the either and the or. Yes, I’m having fun at your expense, or at least attempting to. I just woke up and my humor always was an acquired taste. Consider it the pseudo-intellectual equivalent of me sticking my tongue out at you in a delightfully sinful way (for sinful tongue-sticking-outing is but the flip side of virtue). ROTFL. Yes. Good points all. And that is a cool word. It reminds me of Eudaimonia, but such associations have more to do with my hedonism (I like to call it Epicurean) than my stoicism. Enough! I am going to sign off and come back when I can actually take something seriously and say so, without poking good fun at philosophy and my philosophically disposed friends. Every once in a while I get in these moods. Given that I’ve just gotten out of bed—yes, it’s noon, so what?—that could explain part of it. Especially when you consider I’ve been working with computer code virtually nonstop for days now. C’ya.
sara Major Gender: Unspecified Location: Registered: Feb 2006 Status: Offline Posts: 1253	Posted Wednesday, July 2, 2008 @ 01:33 PM Bonnie, That naked lady…pardon me, nude lady (rocks are naked, women are nude) with a hat is a very strange painting indeed. I do not understand it at all. I am glad I am not on a game show being quizzed on my interpretation of its contents because I would be speechless. (HEY!! That is a terrific idea! A game show called, “So you think you understand Art?” You could host it!) Er…is that cherub really holding a corncob? Anyway, everyone who knows me understands that my gift is for logic, not art. Eric, as I read your reply, it occurred to me that it must be very difficult for you to rationalize easily. (Please note, I did not say “ratiocinate” easily….that would be a breeze for you) To outwit yourself, you would have to be quite clever, no? You mentioned that you talk to God, but do you talk to yourself, as well? If you do, I imagine you as having rather lengthy conversations. Why do I feel a tiny twinge of dread in regard to you teaching critical thinking next semester? My husband is scientifically inclined and when he patiently tries to explain the flaws in my logic, I make monkey noises at him. I suppose, with you, I shall have to rely on emoticons. Let’s see…….. $Falling Asleep \~z\~$ …… $Sick :\~$ …….….. $Stressed !\@#\$$ …… $Tired \~_\~$ . How about a $Rolled Eyes %\)$ ? But, I shall not be negative. Who knows? Maybe I will respond with a $Surprised (Eek!) \~0$ or a $Cool #\)$ or perhaps a $Blush $\@$$ . $Smile :\)$ sara
Admin General Gender: Male Location: USA Registered: Jan 2006 Status: Offline Posts: 810	Posted Wednesday, July 2, 2008 @ 02:09 PM No, now you’ve forgotten enantiodromia. $Wink ;\)$
Admin General Gender: Male Location: USA Registered: Jan 2006 Status: Offline Posts: 810	Posted Wednesday, July 2, 2008 @ 02:11 PM Believe me. Rationalization is among my greatest vices, perhaps chief among them, right up there with procrastination, hedonism, and at times flaming lust.
sara Major Gender: Unspecified Location: Registered: Feb 2006 Status: Offline Posts: 1253	Posted Wednesday, July 2, 2008 @ 03:15 PM Yes, I did forget enantiodromia! But I am concerned! What shall all this critical thinking lead to? Will you be standing in front of your class at the end of the semester making monkey noises? (By the way, making monkey noises is an effective technique to use when debating a person who is smarter than you. It is completely irrational, so most reasonable people are stupefied and don’t know how to respond. You then use the momentary silence that follows to change the subject. I used to do this all the time to defend myself against my older siblings) Flaming lust and hedonism! If Bonnie comes up with a painting to exemplify those qualities, this might turn into an x-rated website. I’m still reeling from the nude lady with the hat.
Painter1013 Sergeant Major Gender: Unspecified Location: Registered: Nov 2007 Status: Offline Posts: 390	Posted Wednesday, July 2, 2008 @ 05:24 PM I like the overall feeling or state of mind this seems to remind me of. A sort of contentedness. I enjoy this state of appreciation as am sure most do. It seems though when you become relaxed there may not a BE ordinary moments , perhaps only ordinary trains of thought. I say this because it seems to me we always notice subtle or differences from the previous day or our moods are diff looking at the same thing. There is some part of the brain that says ignore this pay attention to this, that keeps us from wrecking our cars everyday. Once you notice something subtle or maybe a curiosity it doesn’t seem to go away until you figure it out or quit noticing it. I don’t know how relevant this is to the thread , but it sort of seems appropriate. I have been noticing light more easily for some reason. I have been bothered by very tiny led lights in cell phones or alarm clocks. The lights where I work started flickering for a miniscule amount of time and it seemed to sort of catch my attention for some reason. Then some sort of signal lights used by the railroad employees behind my house..there is a track switch over. I have been in my house for three years and am just noticing this. I went to a restaurant and their salad bar lights went out right as I was attempting to fill my plate. Then at work today there was a total blackout due to a frayed power line I suppose. It is like the more I pay attention the more intense the happening , or so it appears. I guess what I am getting at is this state of ordinary may not exist except in the brain of the observer. Maybe it is the lesson ,to be content and find this place of quiet even if there is a tornado in your backyard.
bonnie Master Sergeant Gender: Female Location: Pacific Northwest USA Registered: Oct 2007 Status: Offline Posts: 129	Posted Wednesday, July 2, 2008 @ 06:50 PM Eric ~ I prefer bare feet to shoes of any kind. Painter ~ Positively yogic! Also, Bosch’s symbolism was probably better understood by those living in the Middle Ages. He believed that, because mankind had given itself over to hedonism and lust, all were doomed to Hell. Here are the symbols from The Ship of Fools that I teach my scholars: Owl in the tree symbolized heresy; as did Muslim crescent on the mast’s banner. Lute and bowl of cherries symbolized eroticism. People in the water symbolized sins of gluttony and lust. Inverted funnel symbolized insanity. Chicken in the tree symbolized gluttony. Knife used to cut down chicken was a phallic symbol; Knives also symbolized anger. Flirtatious, singing monk and nun symbolized lust, rampant even in the Church. Sara ~ Hedonism and lust? Besides Bosch, Caravaggio captured it well: Bacchus by Caravaggio Notice the fact that the young man’s fingernails are filthy, the wine has been poured to the saturation point, and, OF COURSE, there is the rotten fruit! There is a wonderful surprise in this painting: When viewed up close, Caravaggio can be seen at his easel reflected in the carafe! Teresa ~ For you, because you are so sweet: The Bird and the Bee
Teresa Sergeant First Class Gender: Female Location: Missouri Registered: Apr 2008 Status: Offline Posts: 99	Posted Wednesday, July 2, 2008 @ 08:28 PM Hey Bonnie~ Thanks for the link to The Bird and The Bee. I actually have previously downloaded a song or two. I confess, this song baffles me a bit. It can be interpreted in many ways. I love the girl doing the celebration dance and also the bird and bee flying at the end. Some meanings for my life that I won’t go in to, but some serendipitous things there. I do have to say though, I’m not so sure I’m sweet. Just try to speak what is on my heart. There are many parts of me that are far from wonderful—I can get pretty frustrated and have said some incredibly horrible things to God. $Frown :\($ Am also trying to be wiser, but as Eric described wisdom in his recent post ”…wisdom does not involve change in the world so much as it involves change in us.” Been pretty quiet on the forum lately, but am reading and enjoying the discussion! I appreciate each of you more than you know. I was at a dinner tonight and sat next to a really interesting woman. We had lots in common (she develops web training) and were discussing how people learn from each other. My mind drifted off to this forum and how this group discusses, challenges, and helps each other. Then this lady made an interesting statement. She said, “We have to see for others what they can’t see for themselves.” You all do that for me. Thanks. Sounding so sappy, here—ugh! Too tired from too many road trips lately. Blessings~ Teresa
sara Major Gender: Unspecified Location: Registered: Feb 2006 Status: Offline Posts: 1253	Posted Wednesday, July 2, 2008 @ 09:19 PM Oh my, that young man is so decadent! He even looks more miserable than our dear friend, Martin Luther. There are absolutely too many flowers in his hat. Can’t we find a balance? I don’t know if you will take this as a compliment, Bonnie, but whenever I see rotting fruit, I think of you. I used to think that rotting fruit was…….rotting fruit. Silly me! I’m so glad you are back, painter! I missed you. As for road trips, Teresa, I long to go on one. I’m jealous! Pedal to the metal! The worst thing about living where I do is that you can’t ride, baby, ride in your car. It’s stop go stop go all the way to the mall.
Teresa Sergeant First Class Gender: Female Location: Missouri Registered: Apr 2008 Status: Offline Posts: 99	Posted Wednesday, July 2, 2008 @ 10:14 PM This has been work travel. It is generally fine because I love traveling, but been out more than in lately. It will get better soon! I adore traveling for pleasure, but afraid I’m not a mall girl. In fact, not much of a shopper. If I was in your “neck of the woods” I’d likely be in the Catskills! Maybe a road trip someday?! $Smile :\)$
sara Major Gender: Unspecified Location: Registered: Feb 2006 Status: Offline Posts: 1253	Posted Thursday, July 3, 2008 @ 07:02 AM I hate malls, too. I am a great shopper, but it is thrift stores for me. One good thing about living in an affluent area is that the thrift stores are wonderful. I always make fun of Long Island, but it is rather a diverse place. I grew up in Northport, which, when I was a child, used to be a quaint small town on the north shore. Now, it pretends to be a quaint small town on the north shore and people pay a lot of money to buy into that illusion. Before you guys start thinking that you might be able to borrow money from me, I have to tell you that I’m not among the rich folk. My dad was a mailman. I SHOULD be rich because my ancestors owned a lot of land around here, but, alas, none of them were too bright. I think they sold all their land to the Indians. Have a great 4th of July.
bonnie Master Sergeant Gender: Female Location: Pacific Northwest USA Registered: Oct 2007 Status: Offline Posts: 129	Posted Thursday, July 3, 2008 @ 10:11 AM Teresa and Sara ~ Road trips and thrift shops?! We really must do lunch! I’ll drive. My car is a bright orange ’74 Mercedes named Bertha,* just like the one in The Bird and the Bee video. May I remind you that my buggy runs on doughnut grease, thank the lard? Also, it sports a bumper sticker stating: Without Geography We’re Nowhere. The Catskills! We can climb Thomas Cole Mountain, the fourth highest peak in the Blackhead Range. Romantic Landscape by the Hudson River School’s Thomas Cole (c. 1826) Memento mori alert! Ode to Sara~ Geraniums are red; Delphiniums are blue. As I ponder dead stumps, I’ll think of you. *I like to name my favorite possessions. For instance, my Bosch washing machine is named Hieronymus, my cello is Monti and my cello case is Justin. I hope I haven’t divulged too much personal information! Back to subjects more typical to this forum, such as Enantiodromia and Eudaimonia. Since I found this site upon learning of the recent death of Madeleine L’Engle, I must mention that I am just now savoring her autobiographical The Summer of the Great-Grandmother. A double ration of rum and an artillery salute to Eric’s readers on Independence Day! Blessings, Bonnie
sara Major Gender: Unspecified Location: Registered: Feb 2006 Status: Offline Posts: 1253	Posted Thursday, July 3, 2008 @ 10:42 AM I name things, too! My car is named Peppa because it is bright red and I hung an artificial red pepper from the antenna. I do this because I always misplace my car. If we go on a road trip in your orange Mercedes, may I tie my red pepper to the antenna? Will we be stopping at Dunkin Donuts instead of gas stations? I love bumper stickers. My last one said, “Light happens” and I haven’t found one for my new car. It is very important to get just the right bumper sticker. I stay away from political ones because I don’t want to antagonize anyone on the road. Republicans don’t scare me, but you have to watch out for those Libertarians. I like cheerful bumper stickers. When I was young, I had a bumper sticker that said, “Life is hard & then you die.” I was one of the few flower-children who dressed in black. bye!
bonnie Master Sergeant Gender: Female Location: Pacific Northwest USA Registered: Oct 2007 Status: Offline Posts: 129	Posted Thursday, July 3, 2008 @ 11:05 AM Sara~I love red and orange next to each other. Peppa is perfect for you! Dunkin’ Doughnuts would make a fine pitstop. Krispy Kreme claims that their doughnuts are better than s_x, so I refuse to try them; there seems to be a big hole in that logic to me. I think that hippies in black these days are known as Emos.
Teresa Sergeant First Class Gender: Female Location: Missouri Registered: Apr 2008 Status: Offline Posts: 99	Posted Thursday, July 3, 2008 @ 03:42 PM Oh yes, a road trip in Bertha and/or Peppa sounds great! Would either happen to be a convertible? One of my co-workers and I are threatening to rent a convertible, sport those big “bug eye” sunglasses and get the scarves like in the movie Thelma and Louise for one of our bank visit trips. You think that would go over well? Our boss says we can’t (well I can’t say it on a website) but suffice it to say we can’t pull any Thelma and Louise stunts. Not that we would, especially that last cliff thing. I think it is our mild rebellion against the “stuffy” reputation of bankers. Some of us are not! $Wink ;\)$ Although I hate shopping, I do like second-hand stores and real bargins. Love getting those great “banker” clothes for < $2.00! :-) Personally, I’d live in blue jeans, given the choice. I’m not much of a doughnut girl, but could go for the coffee or maybe a diet vanilla coke at Sonic. Do you have Sonic in New York, Sara? My grandma grew up in New Jersey and my great-grandparents lived on Long Island. I think New York sounds like a fine road trip! Bonnie the picture makes my heart sigh! Just want to go run toward those mountains! Happy 4th all~
SMiller Private First Class Gender: Female Location: Registered: Jun 2007 Status: Offline Posts: 15	Posted Saturday, July 5, 2008 @ 11:18 AM Bacchus by Caravaggio is a very unique painting. The times I’ve come across this piece in study have been to note the male and female aspects of Bacchus’s body and face. The artist uses female shapes and lines for the face, yet very male shapes and lines for the body. It’s a typical example used in the study of figure painting. but that’s another subject. Until now, I haven’t paid any attention to the other aspects of the picture or what it symbolizes. I never noticed the bruised fruit… Eric, I did go to the other bulletin to check out the “How to start a Tantric relationship” excerpt. I thought it was very good, and also very relevant to a situation I’m in. It could be applied to life in general- don’t live with so many pre-suppositions that you’re in constant disappointment; look for the extraordinary in the life you have, don’t look for a fantasy you’ve concocted in your head. sheesh. This is advice I need to take seriously. Right now I’m in this rut of constant disappointment and unhappiness in almost every area. I also ABSOLUTELY loved The Invitation by Oriah Mountain Dreamer. It challenges me. I wrote it down in my journal to remind me of what I could be. All that peace must come from an intimate relationship with Christ, and that is the one thing I lack and always have lacked—intimacy with him. I love him, and live my life devoted to him, but there’s something distancing us, and I haven’t figured that out yet. … Bertha and Peppa, meet Granny-mobile. yes, a very anti-social dark red 96 Ford Escort LX wagon. She has those seatbelts that go up and down when the door opens and it catches people off gaurd. Sometimes they get injured by it. That’s why she’s so anti-social, especially with that seatbelt in the back that doesn’t work. haha
Teresa Sergeant First Class Gender: Female Location: Missouri Registered: Apr 2008 Status: Offline Posts: 99	Posted Saturday, July 5, 2008 @ 12:07 PM I’m afraid I can’t offer a car with great personality. My poor little red Cougar remains nameless. It does have a cute spoiler and sun-roof though…and I love red cars. The best part is great gas mileage! Perhaps it needs a name…. The Invitation is wonderful, isn’t it? A great reminder (or re-learning) of how we really should be. It is interesting how reading that along with Eric’s latest newsletter kind of puts it all in perspective. I think The Invitation can be easily compared with God and comfortable old shoes. That is how relationships should be with God (and wouldn’t it be nice if it could be that way with people, too?). After all, God is with us when we dance with wildness and let ecstasy fill you [us] to the tips of your [our] fingers and toes and is the company you [we] keep in the empty moments . Perhaps those empty moments are not as empty as we think. Blessings~ Teresa
Admin General Gender: Male Location: USA Registered: Jan 2006 Status: Offline Posts: 810	Posted Sunday, July 6, 2008 @ 01:29 AM I couldn’t agree more that that Tantric page is just good, sound advice no matter where a person finds him/herself. I also appreciate the writing style, which is simple, yet highly effective. Plus, as we’ve all been saying, much of it also applies to God as well. I saw something else that everyone here might find interesting. We talk about our perceptions of the world—how we choose to live in reality. Here is a light-hearted video that may suggest something else about our perceptions. The Amazing Color-Changing Card Trick
bonnie Master Sergeant Gender: Female Location: Pacific Northwest USA Registered: Oct 2007 Status: Offline Posts: 129	Posted Monday, July 7, 2008 @ 09:24 AM There is no sign of anti-social behavior toward the quirky and intellectually curious at Eric’s Forum. Speaking of the psychology of color, tantric love, and the Bible: Happy Anniversary of the birthday of Marc Chagall! La Danse Song of Songs Life is wonderful! Take joy!
Admin General Gender: Male Location: USA Registered: Jan 2006 Status: Offline Posts: 810	Posted Monday, July 7, 2008 @ 05:56 PM I noticed Chagall on Google’s logo today, but I was not previously familiar with him. There was an interesting thought to this latest newsletter. The letter was quite long, but this was its final sentence: But my conclusion is that to “Be” cant be everything and it isn’t the Spiritual Apex for us in these narrow paths. It’s just a resting place towards the destination of Union. There is more than one ways we can read that idea, partly depending on what we mean by our use of terms, so there’s some ambiguity there. What do you think? Do you agree, disagree, more agree than disagree? none of the above?
Hawk Captain Gender: Male Location: Arvada, CO Registered: Aug 2007 Status: Offline Posts: 805	Posted Tuesday, July 8, 2008 @ 08:50 AM I just read the original post on this thread, about how talking to God is like wearing a comfortable old pair of shoes. That comment was too easy for me. I don’t think we usually look at God that way. We should, but I don’t think we do very often. I am going to set myself to live in that thought. --------------------
sara Major Gender: Unspecified Location: Registered: Feb 2006 Status: Offline Posts: 1253	Posted Tuesday, July 8, 2008 @ 11:41 AM But my conclusion is that to “Be” cant be everything and it isn’t the Spiritual Apex for us in these narrow paths. It’s just a resting place towards the destination of Union. I am a bit puzzled by the term “resting place”, but I agree with the presumption that our destination is Union with God. Frankly, I don’t see a contradiction between the passive and active approaches to reaching this destination. On one level, we live “in the world” of the materialists. Of course, in an ultimate sense, this world is also spiritual, but, on a practical level, it simply “is what it is”. Sometimes “what is” is beautiful & inspiring and we feel gratitude; sometimes “what is” sucks and we feel confused and melancholy. This includes our own human natures. Obviously, as philosophers throughout history have taught us, arguing with “what is” is sheer folly. In addition to this, our faith as Christians demands (among other things) that because the world of “what is” is a creation of God, we must believe it is Good, even if it doesn’t seem so. We have decided to trust that in some ultimate way the world of appearances is as it should be. We even have to accept that we human beings….good, bad, and foolish as we are…are inherently okay. Dare I say “redeemable”? This doesn’t mean we become quietists and sit around indifferent to our circumstances and the sufferings of the world. We don’t say, like Popeye, “I yam what I yam” & that’s all there is to it. No, indeed. We are not only responsible for our neighbor’s welfare, but we are urged to become like Christ, God’s representative on earth. This is where effort and discipline and prayer comes in. And vigilance! Most of all, vigilance! Why? Because Christ’s teaching runs counter to the instincts of nature. There is absolutely nothing “natural” above loving your enemies. The only way to achieve a radical state of consciousness that allows us to accomplish a feat such as that is to commit ourselves to loving God above everything else and refuse to be deterred from that resolve. When we make that vow with utter sincerity and fix our hearts and minds on Him, God responds to our desire with grace, and the capacities of our soul become enlarged. Yes, we become “new”. Again, as is often the case in religious life, the “way” is a paradox. Surrender and struggle are both demanded of us.
Admin General Gender: Male Location: USA Registered: Jan 2006 Status: Offline Posts: 810	Posted Tuesday, July 8, 2008 @ 12:03 PM Interesting thoughts, Sara. The paragraph where you write about seeing the world as good strikes me as being psychologically healthy in addition to being theologically sound. And of course to see other people as not only redeemable but inherently okay is but one of love’s many manifestations. I suppose my thoughts about the sentence ran along somewhat different lines. Run ”my conclusion is that to ‘Be’ cant be everything and it isn’t the Spiritual Apex for us in these narrow paths. It’s just a resting place towards the destination of Union” through a “tantric” reading. What comes out is a conception in which Union and to ‘Be’ are exactly the same thing. Consider intimate relationships—real ones, not fantasies. The point at which both partners can “Be” is also going to correspond in some truly interconnected way to the level of true “Union” they share. Union in this sense includes sexuality, but it far transcends it. It is the Union of lives, not merely of bodies, of minds and hearts into a single domestic unit. That is the nuts and bolts of intimate relationships, which at their bottoms are necessarily built on mutual respect and friendship. It’s not always 50/50, but it evens out. Therefore, when I encounter terms like Spiritual Apex, it seems almost to objectify spirituality just as the red zone exploits and objectifies human beings. Such things seem so lofty, as though to have a ring of fantasy to them, when heaven is as close as our next breath. Even to the degree that the Spiritual Apex exists at some point in the future—it matters not which side of death—it will still be, when it comes, as close as our next breath, and until it comes… well, why do we strive after something that does not yet exist? Rather better to sit back and learn from the lesson of living. I suppose the true romances of our day, with God or with others, are always going to ripen and evolve into something much more “Being” than “Becoming” (Platonic pun fully intended). (Though I do think, in the other sense of “becoming”—attractive, beautiful: well, that’s all part of “Being.” It “just is.” Like intimate human relationships, its bottom is necessarily built on qualities that in their own ways resemble the mutual respect and friendship of lifetime human partners. Perhaps more so with God than with human beings alone, it’s not always 50/50, but God makes sure it evens out.
sara Major Gender: Unspecified Location: Registered: Feb 2006 Status: Offline Posts: 1253	Posted Tuesday, July 8, 2008 @ 04:35 PM I enjoy being referred to as psychologically healthy, but being called theologically sound is unnerving. I don’t think that’s ever happened to me before. $Wink ;\)$ I am, of course, influenced by Christianity and I chose the language I did because most of the people on the Forum are Christians, but I think in mystical terms rather than theological. At least I assume I do. Most religions lead people toward a common goal, don’t they? Isn’t that what the Bhagavad Gita is all about? Striving for Union with God through effort, as well as detachment? But, then again, the concept of grace, which I devoutly believe in, is unique to Christianity, isn’t it? I’m not sure. I sense/intuit/trust that my relationship with God is creative and reciprocal in some way, but that is a matter of faith. In terms of my own experience, it certainly seems to be the case, but I might be creating meaning where there is none….sort of like an existential inkblot test. Again, we must return to faith. Hmmm…..Union and “Being” the same thing? The eternal “I AM” is now? Certainly makes sense. But, “Being” ain’t easy, is it? How do we get there? My answer? Surrender. Detachment. Discipline. And….Grace.
Teresa Sergeant First Class Gender: Female Location: Missouri Registered: Apr 2008 Status: Offline Posts: 99	Posted Tuesday, July 8, 2008 @ 10:56 PM My take might be considered different and at this point incredibly random. For some strange reason, I am focused on the word “Be.” A small, but interesting word. According to dictionary.com, it can mean several things, some of which are: •To exist •To take place or occur •To occupy a position •To belong Any of the above definitions can describe our spiritual path and relationship to God (for that matter, human relationship as well). But regarding God: At any moment in time, we exist in a place, occupying a space where we belong to God. This “be” place is a place of complementary relationship between God and humanity. Yes, to “Be” is a resting place— it is also a time of union with God. The ultimate relationship with God or another human is to “be.” It is to exist (I see the use of this word as a pleasant, comfortable, relaxed and positive existence—not a striving for acknowledgement, position or struggling for existence). It is to belong—not in terms of ownership or authority over (as some of you know, I reserve that kind of authority only for God, not another human) but in terms of a deep endearment, a relationship that is not “me” or “you” centered, but “us” centered. It is a union so affirming and spiritually connected that at times, it defies words. To truly “be” in God, is to not worry about depth of love or care. It is known to the core of our being. It is not assumed, or taken for granted, but known to the depths of our souls, so in a manner of speaking to “be” with God is everything. Yet, at the same time, we are moving toward places, experiences and lessons that will take place or occur. So to “be” with God is alive and dynamic. It is learning deeper parts of God, ourselves, and how we can better our relationship with God, another person (neighbor or beloved) and the world. To “be” is to live. It is our connection with God—a part of our identity. It helps describe and define who we are, how we interact in relationships, and how we exist in this world and how we come to know God more. Regarding human relationships; I hope it does not sound too Pollyanna-like to say that human relationships should be the same. I know lots of folks who find fault with their spouses or lovers, but I prefer to look to those who have loving caring relationships. My sister recently expressed the depth of love she has for her husband. They have so many things they want to do together. She is not frustrated in her marriage at all. She and her husband want to spend time enjoying each others company and sharing their life. Do they disagree at times? Certainly. But the depth of their love and respect they have for one another is incredible. They have a “being” relationship. So, yes, I believe we can have a “be” or “being” relationship with God and humans. To “be” is resting and active at the same time—in union with God and humanity. The eternal is “being” now, in the next moment, and in the future. Blessings, Teresa
sara Major Gender: Unspecified Location: Registered: Feb 2006 Status: Offline Posts: 1253	Posted Wednesday, July 9, 2008 @ 08:37 AM That was lovely, Teresa. The sentiments you expressed about marriage were inspiring. It made me wonder where, at my age, I could find a new husband. Of course, I’m kidding, but, in truth, my marriage of 30+ years has endured…not because we are “not frustrated in our marriage at all” and “want to spend time enjoying each other’s company” (when we’re together too much, we irritate each other), but because we repeatedly forgive each other, day after day, year after year. How is this possible? My immediate thought is “exhaustion”, but, although a factor, it really has more to do with knowing and understanding each other intimately. My husband is the kind of guy who rolls the toothpaste tube up with one of those stupid little key-winding gadgets. I’m the kind of gal who can’t seem to use that stupid little key-winding gadget properly (“all you have to do is keep it horizontal!”) . When I’m in a hurry, I get frustrated and squish it right in the middle of its pristine center; I then leave the excess toothpaste in the bottom of the sink. When my husband sees this, the blood literally drains from his face, but, after mumbling under his breath for a few minutes, he dismisses it. He forgives me. Why? Because he knows that I am somebody who grew up sleeping with sand in my bed and unwashed hands and feet. He knows that my mother, delightful as she was, was an awful housekeeper and was bored with the details of child-rearing. He saw, with his own eyes, how my mother kept our refrigerator. Basically, he thinks I might be a little brain damaged. And I do the same for him. He grew up in a household in which the children were not allowed to pick up their forks and eat until their father nodded permission. That’s why I forgive him for having “authority issues”. (Meaning: he freaks out when I tell him what to do) (He’s had 20 different jobs) So, do I have a “being” relationship? I guess so, but it evolved as a result of blood, sweat & tears. Love? I suppose so, but I can honestly say that for stretches at a time, one or both of us wished we were divorced. We forgave each other for that, too. It’s funny that you mentioned your sister’s wonderful marriage because I recently had a reunion with a friend from college and I wrote a little story about it for friends & family. Not only is this woman a lovely person & morally superior to me, but she had one of those “ideal” marriages that torture the rest of us. I think I shall include an excerpt from the story at the end of this. I’d add it as a link, but I don’t know how to do that. (Please note: the story is a trifle “risqué”, but not in a vulgar sense. At least I hope not.) I have more to say about the nature of “being”, but don’t have the time at the moment. Maybe later…. Here’s my excerpt about Lovely Linda…. Linda only said one thing that made my head spin. She claimed that she and Denis had never quarreled in their 25 years together. Not once. Sometimes they had disagreements, but they discussed their problems rationally until an equitable solution was reached. “Impossible!” I declared. “I don’t believe you!” How about when you’re riding in the car together and one person is reading the map and the other one is at the wheel and you figure out that you should have turned left 27 miles back? Or when the toilet breaks and you can’t locate a plumber? When the kids act bratty? The dog pees on the rug because SOMEONE didn’t let her out? Or… How about when one person wants sex and the other doesn’t? Every woman knows that a man with a hard-on is NOT RATIONAL !! If they were, they wouldn’t say obscene things in a baby voice and think it was seductive. Huh, Linda? How about then? Whadya do? Submit out of courtesy? Close your eyes and think of England…or…in your case, underprivileged children? Huh Linda? But then….suddenly…I knew it was true. Why? Because Linda Schrader was one of the nicest people I have ever met. And she’s the real thing. There has never been a phony-baloney bullshit bone in her body. She was….and is….balanced, good-willed, patient, funny, and good. If she were First Lady, she’d have an approval rating of at least 85%. Unlike me, she doesn’t try to be these things….she just IS. You would have to be a beast to yell at Linda Schrader and Denis was certainly not that. He struck me as a pleasant sort of guy. After I badgered them, they did confess that they had one “almost argument.” They traveled somewhere and Linda forgot to pack the address and phone number of the place they were supposed to visit. “How did Denis react? I asked. She laughed. “Oh, he sweated a little more than usual and brushed his hair back several times.” Yup. I believed it. This was a couple who hadn’t had a fight in 25 years. Incredible. I felt a twinge of envy. But then I thought….if Tony were Mr. Wonderful, then I’d be the asshole. I wouldn’t be able to feel morally superior to him, which gives me great pleasure. And then there’s the make-up sex. “I’m sorry,” smooch smooch “No, no…I’M sorry!” smooch smooch. And for one brief golden moment, you are both GLORIOUSLY SORRY! A little strife is good for the soul, I decided. Even if this isn’t true, I have chosen to believe it. The rest of the day was uneventful. After strolling around the grounds of Teddy’s house, we went to Northport and had a hamburger at the Sweet Shop; then a walk along the shore of Makamah to look at the old homestead. Denis had gone to the hotel ahead of us and when we were alone, our conversation became a little more intimate, but there were no revelations between Linda and me. We just made a sincere effort to summarize our lives to each other and ourselves. It wasn’t easy for either of us. It is almost impossible to compress twenty years of experience into one conversation. The day ended in Port Jefferson. I didn’t enjoy threading my way through crowds of tourists to look at a dopey old sailing ship that looked like every other dopey old sailing ship I had ever seen in my life, but I made the best of it. Denis and Linda loved it, and that made me happy. I liked them. A quick dinner, a hug goodbye, and then I was off to return to my own messy world of crabgrass and bickering and cobwebs in the corner. As I was pulling out of the parking lot, I noticed Linda and her husband (“my best friend” she had confided) strolling back toward the hotel. They walked hand and hand, of course, And it wasn’t for effect….they didn’t know I was looking. Twenty-five years without an argument…. Amazing. I wonder if her son smokes pot? Would she rifle through his underwear drawer? Too late to ask… You know, I had actually enjoyed myself. All in all, it was a pretty good reunion. Tony summarized it nicely….“Sounds like you both preferred your own lives….” Yup. That’s it exactly.
Admin General Gender: Male Location: USA Registered: Jan 2006 Status: Offline Posts: 810	Posted Wednesday, July 9, 2008 @ 01:24 PM That was an enjoyable read. I think—when we step back and really take a close look—we are where we are at in life largely because we want to be here. Denis and Linda are happy, and you are happy for them. But you sound happy too. What would you do if your own marriage were as uneventful as theirs? Laughs. I suspect you would go crazy after a few short weeks. For speaking of paradoxes, that funny one of love and hate rings true. I suspect the reason is as mundane as that we have to work hard for it and therefore we value it more, even if at times with short patience and harsh words.
Teresa Sergeant First Class Gender: Female Location: Missouri Registered: Apr 2008 Status: Offline Posts: 99	Posted Wednesday, July 9, 2008 @ 09:02 PM Thanks for your kind words, Sara. Am not sure everything came out just as I’d thought, but wrote after a long day of meetings, although the evening was relaxing and fun. Something inside pushed me to write last night and contributes; I’m sure, to the lack of much cohesion in that post. Your friends sound interesting and amazing. I believe you and them, but must admit, it is hard to fathom. Sounds like Linda and Denis are meant for each other. Your love for your beloved comes through in your posts, and since you’ve been together 30+ years, sounds like you are meant for each other too! I’m probably not the best authority on the subject, but it seems to me that each couple has to decide what works for them. Some like an even calm at all times, some find even calm no fun at all. They like some spice whether that be fussiness, active debates, or drama. Some like lots of playfulness. Everyone is different, so relationships will be different. I think you have a “being” relationship that works for you. I am not a huge fan of conflict yet those who know me well know I can be somewhat opinionated. I struggle with those who never seem to find anything good about their spouse or lover. Most “real” relationships (I think) have involve the totality of human experience, including conflict (well, not Linda and Denis) but what matters is how conflicts are handled when they arise. As I’ve mentioned, I’ve said some pretty horrible things to God. Yet I know I’m forgiven (yes, I do ask for it) and God loves me. Forgiveness and love are paramount in human relationships and in our relationship with God. That is what matters. That is a part of “being” as well. Blessings, Teresa PS: Sara, I think anyone, men or women, filled with unbridled passion are probably not entirely rational at the time. $Smile :\)$
Hawk Captain Gender: Male Location: Arvada, CO Registered: Aug 2007 Status: Offline Posts: 805	Posted Wednesday, July 9, 2008 @ 11:17 PM I’m entirely irrational when I am passionate.
sara Major Gender: Unspecified Location: Registered: Feb 2006 Status: Offline Posts: 1253	Posted Thursday, July 10, 2008 @ 07:58 AM Hawk, I think you are supposed to be irrational when you’re passionate. Nothing sounds creepier than a “sensible” romantic encounter! Teresa, Don’t apologize for what you wrote! It was beautiful. I didn’t notice any lack of cohesion. You are much too hard on yourself. I guess I just wanted to express that, even though some of us find fault with our spouses, we can still have a loving and caring relationship. Very few people I know have marriages like your sister or my friend Linda. It is not the norm and to expect it to be so creates all sorts of tensions. Is it so bad to say, “No, my husband is not my best friend. He is my husband. He drives me crazy and we perplex each other. He never notices when I cut my hair. I hate how he purses his lips when the steak is over-cooked. I would die for him.”??? After I wrote that story, I realized that Linda has changed very little in the last twenty years, while I have changed radically. If we hadn’t been thrown together in a dorm room, we would never have chosen to be friends. She was mature and responsible; I was neurotic and needy. She went home every weekend to help out on the farm, while I drank myself into stupidity, pretending to have fun with a lot of other morons pretending to have fun. She taught migrant workers, I concentrated on “being” rather than “doing” (Which really meant “being” stoned) However, turning myself into a halfway decent human being required rigorous self-examination, honesty, reflection (after all, why should I bother to become a halfway decent human being? What is the point of it all?) and, most of all, effort. I learned how insidious and persistent pride and self-delusion can be and how it NEVER ENDS! Peel off one layer of ignorance and pretense, and there’s another one right under it. Perhaps not surprisingly, my marriage to someone radically different from myself has been helpful in this process. I learned fairly early that our perception of reality is not the same thing as reality itself. When my husband and I look at the moon, we see entirely different objects. I see it from a poetic angle; he as a physicist (which is quite poetic on a different level) Do you know he can’t discern “the man in the moon” ???? Isn’t that strange? He just can’t see it. He sees the moon as a sphere, not a face, and observes craters & mountains & the reflection of light. I keep pointing out the face to him, but he is blind to it. Sometimes he thinks he sees it, but we’re both not sure. BTW, our life together is no longer filled with conflict, though that was true when we were first married. We have both given up trying to change the other and, for the sake of harmony, accept each other’s flaws with begrudging grace & resignation. Also, death is peeking over our shoulders, and this makes it easier to distinguish what is important from what is not important. Also, I hope everyone understands that my intent in writing that story was not to demean Linda. I am in awe of her life; she has done so much good in the world! She wins awards for it! But, she is she and I am me, and I guess, we’re both okay. That was the point of writing it.
Teresa Sergeant First Class Gender: Female Location: Missouri Registered: Apr 2008 Status: Offline Posts: 99	Posted Thursday, July 10, 2008 @ 06:58 PM Sara, You are such a wise woman! You are right. It seems that very few people have relationships with their husbands as Linda and my sister do. Pretty amazing. If you stop to think about relationships, especially between those who are opposite, those can be just as amazing in many ways. You know the old adage that opposites attract. In some ways isn’t that nice? Think of all the things you might not know had you not met and married your husband. Your confidence in the depth of his love for you comes through in your posts. It does not appear you take him for granted (or he, you.) You are “being” with him; after all, an “us” relationship is built on “you” and “me.” Otherwise there would be no “us.” It is a balance, isn’t it—maintaining ones self while “being” with another person — or God. As far as changing someone—why try? Yes, sometimes people change so much or have unforeseen conflicts and events that make it impossible to be together any more. It does, however, seem that couples adapt and change certain behaviors to a degree. I think that goes with being in close personal contact with someone and from doing certain things because it means so much to the one we love. And as Eric pointed out people grow in wisdom from living life—that does change us, too. Sometimes, people drive us crazy. The closest I can come is that I used to tell my kids that they were driving me crazy, even tho’ I was crazy for them (there is some kind of song like that.) But I digress. If someone changes to become a person we think they should be, then they are not being true to themselves…or us. If we try to change them, why did we choose to be with that person in the first place? The person we grew to love is no longer that person. All of that to say that personally, I think you and your honey are on the right track to just accept and love each other. Linda sounds like a wonderful woman; you are a wonderful woman. I’m not sure any of us should get awards. My dad once told me that I did not have to save the world, just impact my little corner of it for the better. I think he was right. We all just need to do what we can to make a positive difference along the way. Blessings, Teresa
Admin General Gender: Male Location: USA Registered: Jan 2006 Status: Offline Posts: 810	Posted Friday, July 11, 2008 @ 00:53 AM Teresa, I’m glad that you are a member of the forum. Your posts add value to our discussions here. While it is not directly related to this thread, I know that you have a high level of respect for the Jewish people and their faith. I don’t know if you have ever heard of the late Ofra Haza before or not. Though I listen to a great deal of world music, she somehow escaped my notice. Her life was short: she died of pneumonia in February of 2000 at the age of 42. Wikipedia reports the following (as well as providing a lot of other information on her as well): Quote: Marriage On 15 July 1997 Haza married businessman Doron Ashkenazi. They had no children together. Ashkenazi died on Saturday, April 7, 2001, of an overdose of crystallized cocaine, leaving behind a daughter from his previous marriage, and a 14 year old adopted son Shai Ashkenazi. He was suspected of having infected Haza with the HIV/AIDS virus. His family did an autopsy test after his death but refused to reveal the results. Death Ofra Haza died at the age of 42 on the 23rd February 2000 – the cause being widely reported as organ failure or pneumonia, reportedly arising from HIV/AIDS (Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome) complications. Her family declined to confirm or deny these reports, however, stating that it was Haza’s wish that the matter should remain private. There was considerable media interest into the circumstances of her death. “Although initial reports suggested that Haza was only suffering from pneumonia or an extended bout with the flu, The Jerusalem Post reports that her condition rapidly deteriorated after she entered the hospital. By the end, Haza was unconscious after suffering liver and kidney failure and was said to be receiving intravenous drug treatment. Administrators at Sheba Hospital said that Haza’s heart finally stopped beating on Wednesday because of an abnormal increase in the amount of hydrogen in her body.” After Haza’s death was announced, Israeli radio stations played non-stop retrospectives of her music and Prime Minister Ehud Barak praised her work as a cultural emissary, commenting that she also represented the Israeli success story – “Ofra emerged from the Hatikvah slums to reach the peak of Israeli culture. She has left a mark on us all.” In December 2007, Israel’s Channel 10 disclosed the previously confidential medical records of Haza and Ashkenazi, affirming that the former contracted the virus between 1995 to 1997 and the latter between 1992 to 1993. The two met in 1996. Like Eastern music in general, much of her style is based around modes/modal patterns, or, as Wikipedia helpfully suggests, “Scales differ from modes in that scales do not have a primary or ‘tonic’ note. Thus a single scale can have many different modes, depending on which of its notes is chosen as primary.” Like a lot of blues music, Eastern modes are usually pentatonic, or, in other words, they consist of five notes per octave, much like the black notes on a piano. (As a side note, when I do play music, that is the sort of sound that tends to come out—from the very beginning it seemed my own self-expression had this modal quality to it.) I hope that you enjoy the following three videos from YouTube. I really wanted to include the one where she is interviewed on the Today Show, which shows how a lot of her ancestors were able to create beautiful sounds using only common objects for percussion and their voices. (So perhaps my comment does tie into this thread, after all: wisdom—and its close cousin beauty—is not a shiny, new pair of shoes—laughs. It’s much deeper and far simpler than that.) However, whoever posted it on YouTube has disabled the ability to embed it on external websites. That being said, you can watch it by going to Ofra Haza - Interview Today Show עפרה חזה - ראיון. It really puts a frame around the first video, in my opinion. The first video here is a good example of the “improvised” music Haza discusses in the interview above. The second video is a live performance of her acapella “Love Song” featured in the interview. (Ironically, the very first track I heard from her was a remix of the “Love Song” showing just how flexible she is in her ability to warm up to virtually any style. You can listen/see hear; it shows a somewhat more “risqué” side.) The third video is a rather different version of Led Zeppelin’s “Kashmir.” Acapella Ofra Haza - Love Song (Montreux) Ofra Haza - Kashmir Enjoy… God bless… and Shalom.
SMiller Private First Class Gender: Female Location: Registered: Jun 2007 Status: Offline Posts: 15	Posted Saturday, July 12, 2008 @ 02:48 PM Sara, loved your insert about your friend, Linda. It was entertaining and insightful. My boyfriend and I talked about marriage the other day and it really got me thinking, so all types of stories on marriage are of particular interest to me right now… cause I have way too many fears and questions to be ready for that quite yet!
Teresa Sergeant First Class Gender: Female Location: Missouri Registered: Apr 2008 Status: Offline Posts: 99	Posted Saturday, July 12, 2008 @ 04:49 PM It is so wonderful to be part of this forum. I continue to be in awe and wonder at the amazing people who frequent this site. Part of the great fun is being exposed to writers and artists who are new to me—including Ofra Haza. You are correct, Eric, that I have great respect for Jewish people and their faith. Although I do not understand Hebrew, something in the language and music is so fluid and graceful that it moves my soul. Ofra Haza was an amazing artist (I had not heard of her before). Her music is intriguing. Both Kashmir and Love Song are beautiful. The remix is more “risqué”, but The Song of Songs ( Song of Solomon) is not exactly G-rated material (smile). The remix is truly a beautiful and passionate physical expression of the song. Kashmir is certainly takes on a different musical tone than Led Zeppelin’s version—it is much more hauntingly beautiful in Haza’s score. I am a huge music fan, loving all kinds of music. I am always intrigued by the simplicity and complexity in music. If we really think about it, though, something as simple as a tin tray creates a backdrop of rhythm and reverberation that when combined with a haunting melody creates great beauty. Yes, as simple as in being comfortable enough with God to feel as if your relationship with Him is like a pair of old shoes—a good thing! Perhaps the fact that music can be simple or complex—making us joyful enough to dance or reduce us to tears—is just reflecting life’s joys and struggles. Music (or anything) is impacted by the context of where we are in life, how we view our relationships with people, God, spirituality and living each day. As you said, For it is only in living life that anything meaningful is to be found, and the most spiritual thoughts are simply reflections twice removed, reflections of life that speak to life and have no real meaning outside that context. I could go on and on, but this post will be way to long (probably already is), but I have to mention one (maybe two) more things. In some ways, the rhythm and adaptation of everyday items in Ofra Haza’s music reminds me of the group Stomp. They don’t sing and their instruments are everyday items, but they create music. I love this group; they are so amazing! Was lucky enough to see them live a few years ago and would go see them again in a heartbeat! During one part, I could imagine them dancing around a fire, letting their bodies leap and weave in the ecstasy of this thing we call life. STOMP turns Moscow noise into music (Hope I did this hyperlink right…the videos are embedded and I can’t figure out how to post them except this way. Anyway, they are the Stomp Out Loud videos.) One last thing. Eric, you mentioned you like world music. I do as well, but admit I have a particular fondness for Celtic music. While I can only take bagpipes for so long, I love the combinations of violin, guitar, penny whistles, and harps. The traditional tunes are lovely, but there are some great modern scores that are just wonderful. I got one the other day (feeding my iTunes addiction), that reminds me a bit of Eastern types of music. If you go to iTunes and search for The Okarina, you’ll find several options. I got the one from Green Linnet. You might like it…you might not, too! Blessings~ Teresa

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